Why Joly says she'll come to the table with Russia, China — even if she doesn't like it

International affairs are shifting like "tectonic plates," says Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly, and Canada must show up at "every single" international table to counterbalance aggressive actors — even if she doesn't want to sit beside them.

"I don't feel like sitting next to [Russian Foreign Minister Sergey] Lavrov, actually," Joly said in an interview with CBC Radio's The House. But such meetings can offer opportunities to isolate Russia internationally and counter Russian propaganda, she said. 

Joly pointed to an international meeting this summer where G7 foreign ministers refused to have their picture taken with Lavrov, who then exited the summit early.

"He left the meeting because he's reading the writing on the wall," she said.

G20 leaders will gather in Indonesia again next month. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said that Canada will take part in the gathering, even if Russian President Vladimir Putin also attends.

One year after being appointed minister of foreign affairs, Joly — in a wide-ranging interview with The House — described her approach to the file as "pragmatic" and emphasized the need to engage in dialogue with all countries.

"I don't believe in the empty chair strategy," she said. "When Canada is not engaged in a dialogue, first, it's not helpful for our own peace and stability. And second, we lose influence in the world because the other G7 countries are actually talking to these countries."

That philosophy applies to China, said Joly, who has said before that she wants to "re-establish ties" with Beijing.

Canada-China relations tanked between 2019-2021, as the countries engaged in a diplomatic battle over China's detainment of Canadians Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig — a provocation broadly viewed as an act of retaliation for the arrest of Meng Wanzhou in Vancouver as the United States sought her extradition.

Joly said she's concerned by China's continuing display of "aggressive" behaviour in the Taiwan Strait but stressed that Canada can't turn its back on all discussions with the superpower.

"At the same time, we need to engage with them on climate change, and on health and on denuclearization, because these are also existential threats that we're facing, as a country and as a world," she said.

But Joly's comments came just after Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne spoke of "decoupling" from China.

"People want to trade with people who, really, share the same values," he said during a recent visit to Washington D.C.

Joly suggested the two ideas aren't out of step because Canadian businesses should be aware of the risks of doing business with China, and should explore opportunities to diversify their trading partnerships.